savvy_nat
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Re:Women's Premier League? - 2008/09/22 15:08
That was actually my post that didn't show up.
I don't think we are having an argument here. It's a discussion forum, hence the replies.
If the "league directors" want to make it women's elite, better specification would be great on what "elite" means. If it means with Nationals experience, great, but I think you'd be missing out those who have played for a year and just haven't been to Nationals. They would have far more experience playing than what i did when i first went to Nationals - with 3 months of SUL playing...
Even with 2 years of Nationals, does that mean I'm classed as elite? absolutely NOT. I played far better in my first Nationals than my second, so I disagree that "nationals" experience means someone is classed as elite.
I think the fact we have 19 signed up is GREAT. It really is - which shows we have a NEED for women's ultimate. If you are looking at "elite" level, you'd get people that have played NUFL and Worlds. Not many on the registered list have this.
I totally agree Lou, that WA needs a good women's league running, but it needs to be created to make it sustainable for future years, not just when Nationals is in Perth.
It is obvious we need something, but we have to start at ground level to build it up. What is needed is a supportive environment to build the capacity of existing women.
Pul and Sul ONLY offer mixed games. Some of us aren't interested in mixed games. Women's is totally different to mixed and all we need to do is offer an avenue for those who are interested.
If WAFDA doesn't get SUL players for this, that is ok. At least it has been offered. But to turn people away who might be interested in women's league would be detrimental to the sustainability of women's ulti.
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deb_ng
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Re:Women's Premier League? - 2008/09/22 15:54
The way I understand ELITE would be players of a NUFL+ standard. But having said that and having played NUFL, I in no way consider myself as ELITE. After attending the worlds training camps and seeing the female talent and quality at that level, I do not see myself in their bracket and am years of training/play away from it. Personally, playing in Nationals does not define ELITE.
But of course ELITE is relative in this case. Yes, WA needs an elite women's league 1. to play women's ultimate and 2. improve women's ultimate. Ideally, there'd be many female players that we can select who we consider elite in WA. Unfortunately, we are not in that situation. Even if we could select "the best" 30 women for this Perth Premier League (equating to 2 nationals teams), I dare say the skill disparity between the best and worst of those 30 women would be great, which consequently will lower the level of play.
As for improving skills/knowledge to the next level, I believe this can be done anytime-anywhere, with the advice of a good mentor, a lot of time and effort. Generally, PUL is not a good venue to improve their skills as it is rare that PUL teams would focus on developing individuals and in a game environment a player does not have the opportunity to learn repetitive skills. When the Club Affiliation Policy comes into effect, PUL will be club teams only, hence the level of play should (theoretically) improve as all PUL players will be training outside of league games. PUL is also not Women's Ultimate - skills, habits and game style does not directly translate between the two, players have to adapt their strengths in Mixed games to suit a Women's game.
The Premier League is provided by WAFDA as a product for all players to utilise to their benefit. Personally, I do not believe it is within WAFDA's scope to provide a venue for players to develop & improve - this is a Club's responsibility, which is addressed by the coming Policy. Certainly, WAFDA's mission is to promote flying disc and introduce new players through coaching clinics, but once past the beginners stage, players should have a development pathway through a Club with WAFDA's assistance, support and sanctioned competitions. Currently, WAFDA is responsible for too many objectives, which can not be efficiently or effectively achieved, hence the Club policy is desperately needed. Even once the Policy is enacted, it will require massive support and effort by Clubs to expand WA Ultimate to the next level.
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gillian
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Re:Women's Premier League? - 2008/09/22 16:21
ok, I just wrote a big long post and it got deleted cause the site logged me out...ugh...anyway, I'll try and summarize...
If you are an "elite" player and you think this league will be beneth you and your skill set, then it's very simple...don't play. I don't think there is one woman in WA who never drops the disc, or throws a disc away, or gets out cut or broken. I also think that it's up to you what you get out of your playing time. If everyone stopped worrying about the skill level/abilities of the woman they are marking, and concentrated more on developing themselves each game, you would certainly get the most out of every ultimate experience, wether it's PUL, SUL or a pick up.
I feel like we, as the women of WA ultimate, are getting a little big for our britches. I know there are a lot of us, myself included, who should be thanking our lucky stars that we get to play in WA. I can assure you that most of the women in WA would NOT make an east coast nationals team, such as Wildcard or Box.
Also, PUL and SUL are sooooo different to women's ultimate. How many points are won in PUL by long hucks into the end zone which are brought down by a tall guy? A LOT! I feel like my team uses everyone on the roster...but there are still tons of huck points. This is sooo different to a women's game that just playing on a field with all women is great experience. If you don't think you could use the extra practice then again...it's simple...don't come.
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Lou
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Re:Women's Premier League? - 2008/09/22 23:23
i agree with Deb - "elite" is relative in this case. As most of you have said, we nowhere near match the ability levels of the other state teams right? why do we think that is...because there is nothing to push us to that next level. I don't think we are getting too big for our britches or whatever!
Seriously it's all well and good to say we should be helping beginners and blah blah and thats fantastic (remember UWA is a major contributor to new talent...) but we also have to focus on pushing our current players to new levels and offering them more.
I do not think that in a team sport you have complete control over how much you can develop in a game because it is extremely difficult to play high-speed, passionate ulti when the other people aren't in the game because they are still learning or don't have the same passion.
Let's scrap the word 'elite'. Why would i mean NUFL and worlds level when i know there aren't enough of those players in WA?!? think about it. It's a premier league to offer current ulti players a fantastic means to get them motivated to play THEIR best and get others to play their best. This league would help to push PUL players (yes, many of them are still premier women in WA) to get even better, and nationals-level players to aid in these players reach their potential, and also to develop their own game.
That's all i have to say because i have an essay to write. I'm pretty sure a lot of women ulti players share my opinion, however like me (up until yesterday) have not discovered the DISCussion board, or purposefully stay away from it.
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sarah_mck
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Re:Women's Premier League? - 2008/09/22 23:59
This is a test because I've lost my past 2 posts!
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sarah_mck
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Re:Women's Premier League? - 2008/09/23 00:31
Ok thats 3 times...this sucks.
really really bluntly...I want to play a competitive womens league.
WA womens frisbee could not be in a more positive position...numbers are increasing and so is depth.
I think we need a womens league post nats that focuses on novice players/developing beginners and recruitment. I think right now (October league) is not an appropriate time for this.
Nationals is in perth..lets showcase serious frisbee.
Regardless of how many teams WA have in nationals and who plays for who, i think this league is an opportunity to kickstart WA's nationals campaign as a whole...I think a competitive league is the way to do this.
Im not suing the word elite -to me that is worlds players, there are only about 30 of them in the country and at this stage none in WA. NUFL and WUCC players are the developing elite...
I think WA have a lot of intermediate standard women who as a unit share many attibutes that we can contibute to developing each other. some are better throwers, some are better cutters, some are more athletic & some have lots more game/competition experience and knowlege. If these players come together to play hard and in competitive games where we challenge each other, i think it will go a long way in enhancing the depth & skill of our 'stronger' wa women. I see these players as those who've previously played nationals, trained 4-6 months for unigames and some of those who've played several pul leagues (thinking 4-5 +).
I want the league to be fun but for me i have the most fun in sport when its competitive and challenging...still in a positive and ecouraging nature where everyone helps develop everyones games...but when people only play if they're going to play hard and push each others games!
ok thats all, bed!
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